[00:00:00] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Welcome to the Song Saloon. I'm singer songwriter Jordan Smith Reynolds. Each episode I meet with an artist and we sit down with one of their songs. Today's guest is Connor Cherland. In his mid twenties chair, Cherland chose music over a tech career and has since made a living, playing everything from clubs and corporate events to parties and weddings while self releasing a string of increasingly accomplished records culminating in 20 2021's heartwarming Love Songs album. His debut EP for Santa Barbara records captures his cinematic song craft. Poignant lyricism and tremulously emotive vocals more vividly than ever before. Welcome

Connor. 

[00:00:43] Conner Cherland: Hello. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:45] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, Connor, it's great to have you on here. I love that you mentioned, cinematic song craft in your bio.

I kind of lean towards cinematic sounds in my music as well. What did you mean by

that 

[00:00:58] Conner Cherland: Oh, well I didn't write it, so,

[00:01:00] Jordan Smith Reynolds: write it?

[00:01:02] Conner Cherland: so, um, what did he mean by that? Um,

I would imagine he wrote that because he, he, he was like, oh yeah, we want this to be put into like a movie.

[00:01:13] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:01:16] Conner Cherland: I would imagine that's like a marketing ploy.

[00:01:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:20] Conner Cherland: Um, I do think cinematic applies, but you could imagine. Almost any song being played in a movie.

You know? So it's like,

[00:01:28] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:01:29] Conner Cherland: it's like, yeah, that's, that feels like one of those one, one of those buzz words for 

[00:01:34] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Right. 

[00:01:35] Conner Cherland: the, the dog whistles to the licensing company.

[00:01:38] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm-hmm. I hear that. So it's not like we're gonna hear sweeping orchestral, uh, underpinnings to your songs or what's, what's it look

like? 

[00:01:48] Conner Cherland: I mean, you will on the new stuff like this, this this new record that I'm doing, like there's like big concert drums that you're gonna hear ring out. There's gonna

be like cool.

cool concerty things involved. But um, yeah, on the other stuff, Yeah. I couldn't tell you what he meant by that.

[00:02:12] Jordan Smith Reynolds: uh, I think we talked about the national a little bit. Uh, is the national, uh, an influence for you?

[00:02:17] Conner Cherland: Absolutely. Yeah. Huge influence.

[00:02:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm-hmm. I remember your, um, your latest ep. I'm hearing a lot of that. The, is it love? If love is what it feels like, what, I forget the name is, but 

[00:02:28] Conner Cherland: yeah. Yeah. 

[00:02:29] Jordan Smith Reynolds: So love the rock influence in it as well. And you have your song Drugs Today, and this is the first single off of the album.

[00:02:37] Conner Cherland: Yes. Yeah. Um, first single should be coming out in August. And, um, feeling good about it. Uh, it's always like a scramble scenario when you're, when you're gathering. So, so many different instruments and doing so many different recording sessions with so many different people. It's, it's just a lot to like logistically organize.

But I think we've, it's just got a really good vibe to it. It's got a really good heart to it. There's actual vibraphones on it, so there's actual vibes on it. Um, yeah, my, my friend, um, her artist's name is Roe, r o w e, and she's like heavily featured on the song. It's like, I initially wanted her to like, help out with background vocals, and it basically turned into a bit more of like a duet sound where like she's just like very heavily featured, um, alongside me, and that's really sweet.

It's the first time, like I've, I've had female vocalists on the songs before, but not one that I'm like, so personally close to and like we, it was just so nice to like, spend that time with our, we hang out all the time, so it's, it, it is just nice to make something so intimate with like an, an actual friend and like, it makes it feel even more close to home than it did before.

And it's already like, it's a, it's a song that's very close to my heart. So, it makes it so much sweeter doing it with people that you like really love.

[00:03:57] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Absolutely. And so collaboration sounds like is a huge part of this record. Is that kinda the theme for the album in general is you've been doing a lot more collaboration? I.

[00:04:07] Conner Cherland: Absolutely. Yeah, that's a big reason why we did the, the GoFundMe. Um, so the context is we just did, we just did, uh, we raised $15,000 in the last few months for, for this record. And a lot of, I got a Facebook message from my aunt being like, Can you, she, she was like, I don't mean to be rude, but can you like, tell me where this money is going?

'cause she was like, didn't, didn't understand. She was like, why does it cost so much money? And that's like, that's a super legitimate question. Like we, we look at like a movie set and we're like, how does that movie cost like a billion, like how does that cost like hundreds of millions of dollars to make a movie?

And then you see how many people are on a set at one time and you're like, oh, it like, There's just, there's a lot of people involved at the same time. And everyone is juggling jobs all at the same time in the same space. And like, that's, that's what this record has been a lot of, of like, it hasn't all just been like me in a room.

Like all these songs come from just me alone in a room, and then they open up to like me showing it to people. That I like, really want their feedback and then I like let them speak into the songs and being like, which of these lines feels weak to you? Which of these chords feels weak to you? Like, that's still like the ideation stage.

And then it comes down to like actually performing the songs and like, these are all. Real instruments, like all, like everything is, there's like, except for like very tiny, like, you know, like, like a woodblock. Like, you know, you don't, I don't, I don't need to like rerecord a woodblock, but like, all, all these things are recorded for this.

So these are all like, original sounds and, um, that also feels cool to be like, I was in the room when all of these sounds were made. I like, I know what they sounded like and I know what. And I know who did it. Like I, I can imagine all the hands making them. And that's, that's another really sweet detail.

[00:06:02] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Right. And I love the part of, you know, rewarding creatives for their work. You've had. you're also creating job opportunity. The people that are associating with the

record. 

[00:06:12] Conner Cherland: absolutely.

[00:06:13] Jordan Smith Reynolds: and, and really 15,000 for a, you said it was a 10 song album 

[00:06:18] Conner Cherland: Yeah. 

[00:06:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: that's like, you're still bootstrapping it quite a bit, you know, and 15,000, there's, there's so much that that really goes into making a record like that.

Um, and that's not even touching the

The marketing

side, which most people argue should cost just as

much. 

[00:06:35] Conner Cherland: If not more or double. Yeah. Yeah. So we're not gonna be able to spend double on marketing. Um, we're not even gonna be able to spend the same amount on marketing. But, um, I think this gives us a good shot at like having. Some marketing money, and that's more than I've had in the past.

So 

[00:06:53] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:54] Conner Cherland: that's, that's really helpful. Um, yeah, the job opportunities part, I think is what I'm really trying to highlight on my Instagram page of like, really anyone who touches the album, trying to get them on camera and like ex, like say like, this is this person's name, this is this person's background. This is what they do really well.

This is how long, you know, they've been like working at this. Because you're not, you don't, you don't pay a doctor for the, like, five minutes it takes to like, you know, take out your appendix. You like, you pay him for how well he can do it. You, you pay him for the fact that he's, he won't mess up.

And that's, that's what paying a musician is like, the stakes are lower, a hundred percent. But, these are people who have been doing this their whole life. so that on recording day, they can do this in a timely manner, and that's a really valuable trait.

[00:07:50] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Right, and that's a craft that's built up over hours and hours and hours and hours of 

[00:07:55] Conner Cherland: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:07:56] Jordan Smith Reynolds: accomplish those things

quickly.

[00:07:57] Conner Cherland: Yeah. Largely 

[00:07:58] Jordan Smith Reynolds: there's a lot of value there. Yeah. Yes. wonderful. Well, let's go, let's get into it. I'd love to hear the performance and then we can, we can dive into the specifics a bit more.

[00:08:09] Conner Cherland: Great. Let me,

how's that? Is that sounding all right?

[00:08:18] Jordan Smith Reynolds: That sounded great.

[00:08:20] Conner Cherland: Cool. Uh, this song's called Drugs.

[00:11:41] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Alright, beautiful. Thank you so. So much Connor. I love the, the,

piano 

[00:11:52] Conner Cherland: Oh, thanks, man.

[00:11:53] Jordan Smith Reynolds: in.

Yeah, 

[00:11:55] Conner Cherland: that's, uh, that's the height of my piano playing right there. That's the most I can possibly do at the same time. Just so we're clear. Yeah. This is, I've, I've peaked that's uh, It's the best I can do on a piano at the moment. I wish I were, I wish I were better. A lot of this record was recorded, like left hand, right hand.

So it's like,

[00:12:14] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Oh,

cool. '

[00:12:16] Conner Cherland: cause I'm not good at a piano, but I really, really love it. so learning how to do right hand, left hand and sing is just, um, it's, it's a lot. I don't know how people do it, man.

[00:12:27] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, so that's for the tour, right? Practicing

doing both at once, so you can go

play this thing. 

[00:12:32] Conner Cherland: Yeah, I have, I have till November to figure all that out, so we're

[00:12:37] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You got some time. I also really like hearing you on a different instrument. 'cause I'm used to hearing you on an acoustic, um, with a bunch of pedals. That's where I, I saw you play last time. So what's that experience been like? Why did you write on keys? Was it, is it most of the album You're on keys this, this time around.

[00:12:57] Conner Cherland: Uh, this album was almost entirely written on keys. Yeah. Um, I think I just have, I just like, the piano a lot. it just has a real feeling. like I started taking music lessons Music theory as it pertains to songwriting from like this artist that I really respect.

And, kind of the easiest way to understand music theory is through the piano. It's just like, it's just linear and a guitar is linear, but it's six linear at like six linear things right next to each other, which is a lot to keep track of. And, here I can just easy base note in the left. Melody on the right, and I can really see the relationship between a bass note and a melody and that that has, yeah, I think just really shifted the way that I write and the way that I think.

And I just think it's a really beautiful instrument. I really enjoy sitting in front of it. I feel like a piano, like a guitar is a thing. You bring places and you don't bring a piano. Places like, A, a piano. You, you sit down at a piano, you don't sit down at a guitar, you sit down with a guitar and like a piano is actually a place.

And I, I feel 

[00:14:06] Jordan Smith Reynolds: I love that. 

[00:14:07] Conner Cherland: I've, felt really held by that place. right now I'm like sitting in the place that a lot of these songs were written and basically, November through March, I was like trying to write this record. So I was like, if I'm trying to write a record, then I need to write 50 songs at least.

And, did that and found 10 that I thought were really cohesive and, um, and I owe that to the piano. Like there's, I, I couldn't have done it without the piano. I'll, I'll tell you that. it's also 'cause I know it less so I'm actually exploring when I play it.

[00:14:41] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes, there's a really fun excitement and curiosity as a creative in working on an instrument that you're less comfortable

with. I feel like, I know with guitar too, when I was writing songs, when I was first starting with guitar, I'd come up with these like, they're not crazy complicated, but more like, you know, sevenths, ninths and adding little extra things to it that I didn't fully understand what I was playing.

And those were the sounds that really excited me 'cause I didn't hear them. 

[00:15:09] Conner Cherland: Yeah. 

[00:15:10] Jordan Smith Reynolds: As often and it felt like, oh, that chord feels like how I'm

feeling and going into it that way. Yeah, my writing's kinda shifted from that, I feel like a

bit, but 

[00:15:21] Conner Cherland: Once you start learning all the shortcuts, it's hard not to take the shortcuts and, yeah, you just know your fastest way home at this point. So you like, why, why take the backstreets and, and the. The piano. I just don't, you know, I'm in a whole new area, so I, all I take is backstreets.

[00:15:36] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm-hmm. That's cool. So did you do, you said a lot of the songwriting you did at the piano. Did you do any writing on guitar during this November to March? Songwriting

spree? 

[00:15:48] Conner Cherland: There's, there's one song, not the November to March, but there's one song that on this record that was written on a guitar. and I think that's it. I think everything else was done on a piano. Um, yeah, a lot of that just has to do with like the, just kind of have a season for riding. I like taking the winter season to like really hunker down.

It's when like I, the, the majority of my work comes, like, my money mostly comes through playing event music. So I play a lot of weddings and birthdays and book signings and. Opening of a spin class, opening of a dentist office. You know, like these are, these are actual gigs that I've done. Um, and

[00:16:30] Jordan Smith Reynolds: That's, a new one I haven't heard much of. That's

cool. 

[00:16:32] Conner Cherland: have you already heard dentist office before?

Is that a, is that a thing that you had heard

previously 

[00:16:37] Jordan Smith Reynolds: know what's funny is I actually played for a, I think it was like a, it was a salon of some sort, an opening of a salon, so that like felt normal to me.

[00:16:46] Conner Cherland: Love it. Love it. The things we get into man. Um, yeah, so that's, that's what I do for money and the, that kind of slows down around Thanksgiving. And so I can like stress super hard and like get in my own head or I can just hunker down and just start writing. And. And that's kind of what I did from November to March, was just wrote a, wrote a ton and I would show them to my music teacher and he would be like, he would gimme these homework assignments of like, I want you to move from A to B and make it sound good.

So I would create the music for that. 'cause it was kind of like, it'd be a harder concept that I was unfamiliar with and I would move from A to B and then, and then I'd be like, okay, now I have this song that sounds interesting, but I don't, I don't know. What it means. And so I just start free associating words with it and then all of a sudden you like put all these words onto the song and you're like, oh my gosh.

Like this actually means something. It's actually kind of clear when you, when you zoom out a bit. And yeah, that was a really cool experience. I.

[00:17:51] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, so that was more harmony first than melody than lyrics. Would you say that was the progression of that particular piece?

[00:17:59] Conner Cherland: Yeah, the idea was like, I would do chords in the left hand and a melody on the right, and then I would use that melody to inspire my lyrical melody. yeah, so that was, it was basically functioning as like the harmony chords and then a riff and then how does my voice fit into all of this?

And, um, how do these things speak to each other? And that was kinda my first time doing that. It's mostly been, like, when I first started, uh, songwriting, it was just this exercise of like, How clever is Connor? How good is the idea? And then we work off of the lyrical idea and we pick whatever popcorn chords fit for that day and 

[00:18:33] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. 

[00:18:33] Conner Cherland: um, kind of, kind of a willy-nilly way to do it.

But, nowadays it's a bit more of a conversation between, you know, what the song wants and then what my brain is ruminating on.

[00:18:45] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Very cool. Yeah, I really relate to lyrics first. That's kind of what has gotten me into music and inspires me when I get into more of the melody stuff afterwards. but yeah, I really like that approach. Yeah. I find my, some of my best work of the work that I've really clung to is the ones that I write when I have some sort of riff or something that takes me somewhere and then you kinda get lost in the flow state of that, and then you come up with melodies.

[00:19:13] Conner Cherland: Yeah. 

[00:19:14] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yeah, that's, that's what's worked for me in the past, but I love this idea of going from like a harmonic idea. Like, oh, can you make a song, go from A to B and feel comfortable and then, then do stuff afterwards.

[00:19:27] Conner Cherland: Right. Yeah. So that was, that was also cool 'cause it was testing my songwriting knowledge and he would, he would continue to like push me. He'd be like, I don't want you to just like do the assignment. I want you to like, I want you to make a song that you'd be actually proud to like put out. And like, that's, that's the real goal.

Like, don't, don't half-ass this. Like really, really give it your all and like that. Like there were certain times where I would like turn in the assignment and I'd be like, I don't know man. I don't feel like that's a song that I'm like, Actually proud of. And he, he'd be like, well, remember it's just a homework assignment.

And I, and I would be like, yeah, but like, what if we could make this concept sound cool? And like, I was like, and I think it could, and he would like look at me very seriously and he was like, it can, and like basically encouraging me to be like, this is a space, like this is, I'm not putting you into awkward territories for no reason.

I'm putting you into. Particular problems that a lot of good musicians learn how to solve 

[00:20:26] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. 

[00:20:27] Conner Cherland: it really well. Like, uh, properly moving by fifths is like a, a reasonable thing to do as a good songwriter. And, um, yeah, it's just, yeah, a lot of cool assignments.

[00:20:40] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Properly moving by fifths can you explain that

what you mean by that? 

[00:20:44] Conner Cherland: Uh, like if you, if you can move the key by a fifth, then nobody notices. and that a lot of your favorite songs end up doing this without you noticing like they've, they've ized, the, the fifth, if they're in c they're all of a sudden they're tonic izing g in the bridge or they're tonic izing G in the In the chorus, and then they're going right back to izing C in the verse.

And you like, you're, you don't skip a beat at all. You feel like, you always feel like you know where home is. You don't feel like you've been like jarred into this random place. You just feel like, like a really good example is like you'll be In My Heart by Phil Collins is like a really good example of what does this and it, you always feel like you know where home is in that song.

but these are. Radically different places that he's taking you. And that's, that's cool. Like a lot of Disney's Disney music does this. It moves by fifths pretty constantly in a way that makes you still feel comfortable. Um, none of it's showy for showy sake. It's like, 

[00:21:39] Jordan Smith Reynolds: it's,

got an emotional

purpose. yeah. 

[00:21:41] Conner Cherland: It doesn't, it has an emotional purpose.

Yeah.

[00:21:43] Jordan Smith Reynolds: I love that. And to be clear, for people listening, tonicizing that means changing the key, right? So from C and then going to G and then G would become the new key for that little segment and going back. Um, and that is cinematic, bringing back that word. So,

um, 

[00:22:00] Conner Cherland: Yeah. Cinematic can mean a lot of stuff. You know, Foley artists are, it makes cinematic sounds, you know, so it's like, uh, at this point I'll just, I'll say everything is cinematic, you know? My,

[00:22:10] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Yes, please get the music in a movie or TV

show. 

[00:22:14] Conner Cherland: yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:22:17] Jordan Smith Reynolds: And then bringing it back real quick to the crowdfunding portion, that's a huge accomplishment.

Congratulations that it's funded.

[00:22:26] Conner Cherland: Thank you.

[00:22:28] Jordan Smith Reynolds: How did you find success in that, but what did that process look like for you?

[00:22:34] Conner Cherland: Um, small answer is I don't, I don't know. A large answer is like, I can, I can answer, but like, there's, there's a piece of it that like, is pretty unexplainable. Like there's no way to rationalize the kindness of everyone in your life, like, and everyone not in your life, you know, like, A lot of my experience in raising this money is like being dumbfounded of being like, wow, this person's really wealthy and gave $10 and this person's really not wealthy and gave me $10, and being like, look, I don't, I don't, I don't know what to expect from anybody, and, but I know that I'm now, I'm $20 richer and like closer to my goal and like That sort of a thing. Like I, I don't know how to rationalize a large amount of love being received through money like that. it like actually conflicts with I think like, uh, this like more pessimistic worldview that I've held for a long time and it's because of that pessimistic worldview that I've like.

I had such a hard time asking for help in the past and, um, so, so I don't know how you find success in it. I'm, can tell you that I have like really loving family members and like really loving friends and really loving, like even people that I've played pickleball with just like a few times, like also just like strangers who have like been at my shows.

Kind people who I've played at their weddings, like the, the categories are like, it, it blows my mind like that someone who I used to play pickleball with would be so gung-ho in like, I don't even think they know about, I don't even think they've like heard my music necessarily, but they care about me and they just wanna see me succeed in life.

And that it's so humbling, man. Like, it just feel like the feeling like it, it makes me, it just, it like almost turns my brain off because it's kind of overwhelming. It it like, it has changed the way that I see the world because I keep playing around with this idea of like, it's. It is our responsibility to one another, to inspire one another, to good works.

And I, I don't know what your potential is, and you don't know what my potential is, and I don't know what like your friend's potential is, but it's like, it's our responsibility to live to our own potential so that we inspire others to live to theirs and like, all these people are like living their dream and they see me trying to live my dream, and they like, and they're like, oh, all he needs is money.

Like, I can, I can give that. And so me taking this step of like this, this step of faith, they're, it's just investing in me. And then, and then I meet my goal and then I inspire someone else to like, Do something extraordinary and out of the box with their life. And so it's just like, let me answer the, the question practically, which is how, how do you find success in it?

I don't think it's a good idea to bother everyone in your life every single day for months. I have been. I am making EPS every year for six years, and they have been getting better sequentially, and I have never made a full length record and I wanted people to know, like I I, yeah. Let's, let's back it up to like the actual practical thing, which is I, I messaged this in a way that I thought was very clear that I'm not just.

Doing the same thing, and I'm not staying in the same place, and now I just need some money. Now I'm now I'm strapped on some cash and I could use some money. However much you can send, send it my way. It's like, Hey, I am, I've been pursuing this dream. The music keeps getting better when I get the money, I make the songs.

This year I'm trying to make double the songs, which requires more than double the money. I don't have double the money. This is how much money I need. This is my timeline. you know that I'm going, I'm not just gonna take your money and disappear, like, you know, like this is, I will get this record to you, you will have it in your hands by November.

Like that kind of a sternness of being like this, like, I'm not, I'm not some random kid, just like starting out, you know me. I know how to do this. I will, I will start and I will finish this thing with your help. and that, that kind of determination I think is exciting for people 'cause they know what's gonna happen.

Granted a lot of these people are like, you know what, I'm just gonna send Connor money 'cause we like Connor and that's super cool too. But I think a lot of people are like, no, he takes this really seriously. And, They really think the record is coming out because the record's gonna come out and they're, they're like all the people who like pre-order, you know, they like send in $25, they're gonna get a record in November.

So, I think that helps. I think personalizing, your communication. Like I did two email blasts. And got like nothing off of that. So I was like, screw email blasts. This is all gonna be text message from now on. And, um, text message or Instagram dmm. And it's the same way like that

you Yeah. you did this as well.

[00:28:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: I did yes. For my deepest of blues record that came out, uh, last year.

[00:28:24] Conner Cherland: Nice. Dang.

[00:28:26] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yeah. And that was, so I guess I did the, the campaign in 2021 in October and released it in April. Um, but yeah, very similar feelings and experiences. And what I, if I could, uh, summarize what you just said was helpful and successful in the campaign was one genuine loving connections with human beings. So if you don't have that set in your life, that's a good thing to start building just because your life's gonna be a lot better for that purpose

anyway. 

[00:28:57] Conner Cherland: yeah. yeah. If you're making connections for the sake of fundraising in years, like 

[00:29:01] Jordan Smith Reynolds: it's, yeah.

That's 

[00:29:03] Conner Cherland: mercenary.

[00:29:05] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Um, and so the connections is a huge important factor to have that network in place and that support system, and then also, Your specificity and your goals and what you want and what you're getting outta the project and what people will, what people can expect.

yeah.

And I loved the confidence being able to say with confidence, this is the thing that's going to be created. And I liked how, earlier you mentioned too, that someone asked the question, why do you need this much money? That's a lot of money. Um,

And it's, it's true.

[00:29:38] Conner Cherland: And it And it is, yeah.

[00:29:39] Jordan Smith Reynolds: it is a lot of

money. People don't, if they're not drenched in the, like they're not set in the industry, it, it is hard to see where that money's going. So I think breaking that down for people and showing them all the many hours that go into making a project like this is so valuable.

So,

and then 

[00:29:59] Conner Cherland: Yeah. I, I don't get any of this money. They're just, we're clear.

[00:30:02] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:30:03] Conner Cherland: I'm, I don't, I'm not pocketing any of it. It's all, it's all gonna be

spent. 

[00:30:08] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. this, it's not going to a new car, anything

like that. So 

[00:30:12] Conner Cherland: No. Yeah, like the, I've been, I've been even more cautious of how I spend my money in the context of like, I'm doing a fundraiser. I don't, I don't want a new guitar. I don't want like, like none of these things. I don't want anyone to see me with new things. I don't want to own new, new things for this period because I want it to feel like all my money is going to that because it is.

And so I want, I want that to be like a very clear message of like, you're not paying for me to buy toys for myself.

[00:30:45] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

Mm-hmm. That's so great. Um, And then as we finish up this episode, I want to talk again about drugs a little bit. What inspired this song in particular, and why do you think it's the song that you want to introduce this album with?

[00:31:02] Conner Cherland: Yeah. I think it's personal in ways that, um, That, that's kind of hard to describe it. Like goes into, goes into a lot of things. Like what, what, what the song does is it combines like, scenes from back when I was 14, back when I was like, dating a girl for the first time. And it combines that scene with the scene of being like afraid to take drugs as an adult.

And like not being willing to. And um, I think, I think it's really interesting how we're so brave and carefree. I wouldn't say brave, I would say like carefree and simple as children. And then we get these experiences as we grow up. And then in adulthood we have these fears.

And we're less simple and we're less carefree. And I think, I think this song embodies something so it, it embodies multiple things that are so personal to me, which is like, you know, there, there are notes of like, sex in there, there are notes of, um, or just like sex, sexuality, like when you're like first exploring your own sexuality as a kid and then, And then now as an adult, like people offering you drugs, you know, it, like, it all means different things in different contexts.

Like, I think how we change is just so interesting and beautiful, but something to mourn at the same time and, but also something to appreciate, like there's, there's something lost, but something gained. And, I think the song does a good job of. Not endorsing anything. It just puts two things next to each other in, in a really beautiful way.

And, um, it's also just like a, like a, it's like catchy enough of a song. It's like melodically really simple. So it's like a, it's, it's a decent earworm. but yeah, I think, I think it just sets such a good tone for this record of like, Hey, this is gonna be a record where you're, you might wonder like, what, what does this song say and being like, is, is there like a point that you're trying to drive home and being like, I'm not trying to drive home a specific point, I'm just putting two things next to each other and like allowing that the space that it needs to, to, to speak to us.

And, yeah, I, I think there's a lot to be said about it, but I don't. I, I think this will be a really good introduction. Like a lot of people in my family will are like, so what is drugs? It's like a, like a, a title. Nobody really expects me to put out. So, so it's, it's interesting in that way. And I think it asks for a conversation which, which I hope all art does.

[00:33:43] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes, I totally agree. Um, it does feel very introspective, the song drugs, and I think when you can, when you can bring two things together in a new and exciting way, That is art. That's like I think of cooking too. You know, you're putting ingredients you might not think about together and making something really interesting and exciting with that.

And it's so much, I find that kind of music way more palatable than music that's like, this is how you should think and be. Um, instead of a song that invites you to think and to like say, like, here is, here is a thought, and just letting you kind of process it yourself. I think that's way more exciting and honest.

[00:34:25] Conner Cherland: yeah, yeah. yeah. And to just feel alongside me, that's all. Like, just feel it alongside me. And I'm sure a lot of people have the same experience and, they'll be able to like put in their own scenes as they. Uh, as they listen, and I think it's, it's a song that really invites you to, close your eyes and visualize what, what you're hearing.

So yeah. I like it a lot is the answer.

[00:34:49] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes. That's good. I, I would hope you would. I love how the melody, you'd mentioned the melody stays pretty comfy and, and repetitive. and that also really helps with the kind of introspective getting into that mood. It fits, it fits the text very well, so I love that. 

[00:35:06] Conner Cherland: you. 

[00:35:08] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes. what else would you like to say for the audience, for, for songwriting?

Is there anything else that you would, um, a lot of our base are people that write music or that are interested in that process. Is there anything else that you'd like to leave them with in, in your own particular journey that you found helpful?

[00:35:26] Conner Cherland: like songwriter's advice 

[00:35:28] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Songwriter's advice.

[00:35:32] Conner Cherland: Uh, songwriter's advice for like, beginners, novices advance. Like, what are you, what are you thinking?

[00:35:38] Jordan Smith Reynolds: I would, I will leave that open. I, I think this, it'll be a pretty wide range that are listening in.

[00:35:46] Conner Cherland: Yeah. I would say, try to write faster. let that be one of your goals. not for the sake of like excess productivity so that you're like constantly grinding it out, but, I like to ask myself the question like, what if this were easier? And it's cool to write a good song in a, in a month or in a year or a couple years, like that exists.

But what if on top of that you could write a song in 30 minutes and it, and it was, And it was a banger, like, I think giving yourself like a 30 minute timer, a 20 minute timer, a 10 minute timer, and just like continuing to, to lower the, the standard so that you, when you take off these restrictions, your brain is all of a sudden relaxed and it's just like, oh wait, I have 45 minutes.

Oh, easy. And it just like, it'll plop out a song sometimes and you're like, like these, these types of, uh, self-imposed limits. It could make you the kind of person that's just, rather than sitting down for three hours, you sit down for, I mean, you have kids, so like, like your, your time is hard to find like, and like that, that ability like to write and shorter timeframes.

Like that's what, if you could start and finish, what if you could show up with no idea and start and finish in 30 minutes, like, That's super valuable as we get older and as we get more complicated lives. and you, and you're always gonna take longer on certain songs too, so it's like, do you be like, oh, well what isn't that rushing?

And be like, yeah, look, you're gonna, you're gonna cheat and write long songs anyway. So like, why not sometimes stretch in the opposite direction, like learn both skills. Like it's been really fun for me to be like, oh God, I only have 30 minutes today. Being like, okay, let's, let's see.

And even then, like in 30 minutes you get like a verse in the chorus, like, that's still, you would feel super successful, um, on, on most days if you got something that you were proud of, that was a verse in the chorus. So it's like shortening the timeframes, I think is infinitely rewarding you just realize that you have that.

In your back pocket in case your back's ever against the rope.

[00:37:58] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm-hmm. I'm always really surprised too when I set a time limit like that, like 30 minutes. Um, having nothing coming from nothing. What can come out of that? I mean, and sometimes it's nothing. It actually is 

[00:38:11] Conner Cherland: Sometimes it's nothing 

[00:38:12] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, and learning to be okay with that as, as well. I think being able to do that time limit, setting the time limit, and then also, yeah, lowering, like you were saying, lowering the stakes.

That's the other really important component to it, like setting the time limit is important while also simultaneously being okay with what comes and what doesn't, and less of a push, oh, I gotta get this thing finished really fast, I gotta do it right now to more, you just need to open up your yourself to whatever comes for 30 minutes.

And, and yeah. So those, those two things in, in tandem I think really bring success.

[00:38:53] Conner Cherland: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The, the, the time limit will force you to lower your standards in order to 

meet the time. 

[00:39:01] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes, it does that too. I love that. Alright, Connor, where can we find you? on, on social media, things like that.

[00:39:09] Conner Cherland: Yeah. Uh, Connor Hurlin, c o n n e r. Share like the singer, land like the ground, c h e r l a n d 

on everything.

[00:39:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Awesome. We'll be looking for your album, which you said is coming out in November in full. 

[00:39:24] Conner Cherland: yep. 

[00:39:25] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Awesome. thank you so much for being on here today, Connor.

Excited to 

[00:39:29] Conner Cherland: Thanks for having

me. Yeah, good connecting with you.

[00:39:33] Jordan Smith Reynolds: All right, I'll see you next time.