[00:00:00] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Hello, welcome to the song saloon. I'm singer songwriter Jordan Smith Reynolds. Thank you for being here. If you enjoy this episode today, please consider sharing it with a friend. We're on YouTube as well as most podcast streaming services. This is a special episode of the podcast as it doesn't follow the standard song saloon format.

Instead of featuring a song, today's conversation will be with the incredible songwriter and artist coach, Wendy Parr. I met Wendy Parr at the NAMM show a year or two ago, where she gave a presentation on artist branding. I'm not just saying this because she's on the episode today. That presentation was my favorite takeaway from the convention. Wendy Parr is a holistic artist coach and founder of the Parr Method. She has spent more than 20 years in the entertainment industry, empowering recording artists to develop their authentic voice with consistency across every platform. Wendy has coached top music artists like Melanie Martinez, Regina Spektor, and Sara Bareilles.

Wendy was also the co writer of Dreams on Fire with A. R. Rahman for the Grammy Award winning soundtrack for Slumdog Millionaire. Starting artist career at the age of eight, it is her personal and professional experiences that led her to become the coach she is. Empowering artists to lose perfectionism, overcome resistances, and follow their inner vision and curate a life and career they love.

Welcome, Wendy.

[00:01:19] Wendy Parr: Hi.

[00:01:20] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Hey,

[00:01:20] Wendy Parr: Thank you. That's very meaningful that, the NAMM, experience was impactful for you. Like, literally, to me, that's the meaning of life. Having a positive impact on other people, empowering you. So, thank you for literally, like, telling me my life has meaning.

[00:01:33] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes.

[00:01:33] Wendy Parr: it's great.

[00:01:35] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes, it was. what really impressed me with it was just the practical hands on, networking part of it to just turning to your neighbor and, and working on things and building relationships. I feel like in NAMM, there's a lot of that happening in the little booths, you know, in the different sections, but it was really nice to have, yeah.

that kind of seminar based, approach, where we could have an excuse to talk to each other and, network that way.

[00:01:59] Wendy Parr: You know, I started the Artist Circle Where I was doing live events in LA, New York and Nashville for creatives. and I started it, I think around 2014, I started in my studio, my little studio in New York, and then started doing it in other cities. And I really just saw, you know, there's a 12 step program and there's events and things for everybody except creatives and artists and we need support and I'm working one on one with incredible creative people. Everyone's going through the same thing alone and they don't know that other people are having the same struggles or the same situations And so I was like we just got to get you all in the room together so you can Know that you're not alone.

I don't need to be everybody's resource. Like you can be, you know, that support system for each other. Right. And so I started doing it, the artist circle. And and then I started incorporating that concept into everything I do. So any seminar I'm doing, any presentation I'm doing I do the artist circle for conferences because again, like usually it's.

Like this, it's a one way conversation. Like, the audience is going to receive this. Right? And at a conference, let's say NAMM, there's literally tens of thousands, if not a hundred and plus thousand people, who are all in the same industry, all interested in the same things. We've got so much going on that we could, these are your collaborators, these are your friends, these are your support system.

But mingling, and like, over cocktails isn't going to build a bond. Right. 

So when I'm doing a presentation, which I am this year, again, I'm doing, uh, on the 26th Friday, the 26th, I'm doing the authentic branding. That was called the artist toolkit. And I'm doing the artist circle right after that. And so in the That gives an opportunity for the people in the room to really meet each other, connect with each other, have real human conversations and not who am I?

What do you do? Could you help move my career forward?

[00:03:54] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Right.

[00:03:55] Wendy Parr: So you're going to leave meeting people in a way that's like, you're awesome. I want to get to know you more. Let's hang out. And then business and collaboration and cool. Creative and entrepreneurial experiences can happen, but they're rooted in, I dig you.

[00:04:09] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Mm hmm. I love that. And,

[00:04:13] Wendy Parr: So I do that in every seminar. Now it really involves connecting the people in the space so that again, it's not a one way. I'm not just the, here's my stuff, you know, There's 500 people in this room and you should meet a bunch of them.

[00:04:27] Jordan Smith Reynolds: right. Yeah. I think that is an essential part. And it really helps some of the information stick for me when we're talking. We're usually, you know, I've gone to a lot of seminars, seminars in NAM and other places, and I just feel like, oh, this is really great. And then I've completely gone. Like. You know, 10 minutes later.

[00:04:45] Wendy Parr: The conversation, someone else's viewpoint, like, Oh, I remember what he said about that. And not just your notes. Yeah. Yeah. That's good to hear. That's good to hear. So yeah, I now just incorporated in all my experiences that there is a component of connection among the participant.

[00:05:02] Jordan Smith Reynolds: that's awesome. And I do want to get into Toolkit and Artist Circle, uh, in more detail for our listeners. 

Um, but first I wanted to start with asking you about your, what you think about the connection between artist development. What's, what's the relationship?

[00:05:19] Wendy Parr: Yes. So artist development is really Answering the question, who am I? Right? Like, who am I? What am I about? What are my character traits and qualities? My archetypes like in, in compass. So compass is my six month artist development program and the artist toolkit that I'm doing at NAMM is, um, navigator, which is my mini course.

I'm basically bringing Navigator live and in person with me. So we're gonna have interaction about, I'm gonna tell stories, but what's happening in that live presentation is my Navigator course, um, or I'm gonna say a live version of it, right? So you're not, you're not alone in it and we're talking and we're having interaction and I'm going to tell stories for myself and artists I work with.

So. Answering that big question, who am I? What do we dive into in Compass? Archetypes, childhood heroes, life experiences your sound. Like, I have a three step process called Soundchart which is also an online course. It's a part of Compass. Soundchart is this step where we look at This is the music I love.

Okay. And step two is going to help you really break down. 

Well, what is it within the music that I love? And then we distill it into a recipe on paper of these are the actual ingredients of all the things I love about music. And I didn't realize that I love this instrument or I love this quality or that all the, you know, one artist realized that all the love songs had a certain theme.

They weren't pining for love. They weren't aching for love. They weren't addicted to love. It was a different theme and I'm not saying it cause it's theirs. So she, they were like, Oh, my love song. These are the kinds of love songs I need to tell. It's not that. So that clarity happened. Sylvina Moreno, who was working on her fifth record when she took compass.

She discovered she likes piano driven songs. She's a guitar player. She's like, I've never done a piano driven song. Right. And so it's not me telling the artists what they like. 

It's me helping the artists see their own taste. And through this process, they start seeing like, I always love this kind of music, like back in high school and middle school, and I stopped doing it.

Because it wasn't my genre or people told me it wasn't cool or wouldn't sell but then they could discover Well, I want to bring these elements of that genre into mine. And now this is what makes my music special because it's Hip hop with a rock guitar or whatever it is. Right. So answering that question, who am I?

What do I, how do I move through the world? What do I, how do I, what do I want to say in the world is going to completely affect the songwriting. So we want to, what kind of messages are you saying? And how do you say those messages? Is it, is it with dark and eerie? Is it with nostalgia? Is it with upbeat?

Is it I want people in the room to forget their troubles? So my music is going to be that kind of music. You know, when I write with another artist, I'm in that song, but I'm always asking, would you say these words? Right? Like sometimes we'll write the lyric and be like, and maybe the artist is like that word.

It's not the thing I would say. I'm like, great. Let's find the word that makes sense to you or You know, we'll change the phrase to incorporate a lyric. That's like, yes, I stand behind that. And that's the artist understanding themselves to say, I wouldn't say that word, or I wouldn't say it that way. 

So sometimes it's me, like maybe I'm coming up with a theme or imagery or something, and we get the idea down and then we're like, okay, now how do you say it in your speech?

How do you say it in your, the way you would say it? And so. I'm in that song, but they're, they're in that song where, you know, they, like I said, they can really get behind what it says. So when you know yourself, you're going to not take every writing session because you know, yeah, that I, you know, it looks like a good opportunity, but that's not where I want my music to live.

Or that's not, that's not the kind of song I really write. That's not my strength. And so you're going to pick better collaborating partners and walk in the room knowing. I'm a strong lyricist and I'm a person who helps keep I'm a strong melody writer. I'm the person who helps keep the integrity of the story.

I've been told time and time again in collaborative sessions. Thanks Wendy. You really made sure that we like didn't lose sight of the song we were writing, you know, sometimes. And so hearing that gives me courage to speak up in the next writing session to say, Hey, those are really great lyrics you just came up with.

I love the imagery. They're smart, but is that what we're saying in the song? 'cause we've, we we're saying we're going in this direction. If we're changing direction, totally cool, but that really changes. The story. And then in the, this actually happened, this exact thing. And then everyone in the room and then the two other writers in the room went, Oh yeah, yeah, that's true.

And so we're like, okay, well, let's see if we save that lyric for another song or if there's a way to incorporate it in another way. So I'm not afraid to say that, especially because I've been told, Wendy, that's your role. Like you do that really well. 

So I step into that role more. I'm a really strong melody writer.

I am usually now writing for other people, so I don't put my melodies first. I want the artist to lead with their melody and their style and propensity. And then I'll interject where I hear like, Ooh, it could go here now. Ooh, would it be sweet if we went into the melody like this now? You know, to bring in a change, to bring in the next color.

But I, I don't push my melodies because I want the artist to take the lead. Even though I know, yeah, I'm really strong at melody. So knowing your skills, knowing your personality, you know, and knowing what you wouldn't, wouldn't write. Focus, incredible, five time winning, Grammy winning producer, just beautiful heart, incredible musician.

Focus and I had this conversation where, this is when we met, we both just went, you, I like you, you know, and he said he pulled up a track once and I'm sharing his story because he has shared it. 

Like I don't tell anybody's story that they don't share publicly. But he said, you know, I pulled up a track and the artist started rapping about, you know, he started saying rough words, you know, being misogynistic and he said, Whoa, is that what my track is giving you?

Like, is. Is, are you just saying what you want to say, or is that my track inspiring that, because if my track is inspiring that I need to change the track, that's not what I want to talk about in music. Right. So he's very clear of where his, his passion, his heart, his moral messages. And that's what he wants to make sure, right.

You know, he's partnering that way. So. You know, I would never suggest trying to write the hit if it's going against and out of alignment with your integrity.

[00:12:12] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Right.

[00:12:13] Wendy Parr: your integrity, skills, talents, propensities, qualities, and again, that like, how do I want to move the audience? What kind of message do I want to give the audience will really impact your songwriting tremendously.

I had an artist do Compass who had a whole record ready, and she said, I've been delaying this record and there I've been delaying releasing it. And when they took Compass, they said, now I know why, uh, they're an artist from China. And she said, I really want to empower females. To like, take risks and be themselves and be independent.

And she said, but I wrote songs that are just in alignment with all the other pop songs that are just girly and sweet and cute. She said, I, I need to go back and rewrite lyrics. That's not the message I want to give to young girls and to females and women. And, and so she's like, that's what it is. It's the message I have to change.

That's a huge awareness, right? 

Otherwise she, otherwise she puts this message out. She doesn't want to put out, doesn't believe in. And. You know, if, if good fortune happens and it's successful, she's going to be singing those songs for two years or more.

[00:13:22] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Her whole

[00:13:24] Wendy Parr: makes you really happy. That's right.

Or you're fortunate. If you're really fortunate your whole life, that's right. And that's what makes an artist actually quite unhappy, right? Is, is. Not feeling represented expressed like that's not me. I I always compare it to a bad haircut I'm in a transitional stage right now in my hair.

[00:13:47] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Uh huh.

[00:13:47] Wendy Parr: I Don't know where I'm going yet.

I'm growing it.

[00:13:50] Jordan Smith Reynolds: there too.

[00:13:51] Wendy Parr: there we go but you know when you have a bad haircut and you're like no like I wore a hat for three months once because the Haircut was so bad. I was like, this isn't me. Like I don't want people to see me like this This isn't me that that feeling is horrible. And if you're art Is not you.

If you're not being expressed in your art, that's the feeling of, Oh, that's not me, you're not seeing me. I'm not being seen. Every artist is literally putting themselves out there to be seen. And it's a human, human necessity to be seen and heard loved for who we are. It is, it is a necessity of humanity. I

[00:14:30] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes. So if you're feeling nebulous about who you are that's, that's what you need to figure out first, right? Like, figure out exactly who you are. What, what do you have to say about that?

[00:14:40] Wendy Parr: can't say exactly who you are because it's, it's going to be ever evolving. Right.

[00:14:44] Jordan Smith Reynolds: the other thing. Yeah.

[00:14:46] Wendy Parr: right. It's like, this is, I mean, some stuff doesn't change parts of who we are, just do not change. But you also evolve, you know, we were talking about being parents before we hit record. And like, I've seen artists I work with after they're married, the material starts to change and their performance changes the power that they have.

After being a parent. Oh my gosh. The like. The most powerful performances I've seen. It's like after parenthood where they're like, oh my gosh, so much strength in this person. And, and we go through seasons where you're like, I want, I need more light and fun in my world. So I want, I'm making a record that's just more feel good.

Cause I need it. Or I'm going through this breakup. And so that, so there's core archetypes of who you are that don't change, but. What you need to express will change or how you want to express it can change. And, oh, I was listening to Latin music for three years. So I, I'm feeling this flavor now and I want to incorporate that.

So everything, like I talk about, we're so many layers of weird and we need all the layers to have a place. And some just get more highlighted at one time and others get another. And then one thing that was kind of quiet gets the strength now. So we just highlight different parts, but you know, who you are has never changed.

You know, when I was a kid, I was the good girl in my family. I'm actually like, I'm the badass rule breaker. I'm a very mother nurturing person. Like none of that changed. It was just very suppressed for a long time. 

So having it come out, I was like, there she is. You know So I think it's, it's, it's, we have to ask these questions again and again, like, where am I now?

And what do I want to say now? And who, who am I speaking to now? What, what is the message I need to say now? You know, I just put a post out today about feeling really burnt out. And so I'm starting 2024 with a focus of taking care of myself. So it's that same thing. I'm like, where am I now? I'm like, well, I was burning out for the last year and a half until I was like scorched.

And then I'm like, so I need to come back to my life and my purpose and my passion and all the things that I'm doing, like life hasn't changed. And the turmoil of the world is there and social media is there. I'm like, but I have to come back and approach it differently. So here's my focus. I'm putting, I'm putting my well being before my career, before sales, before I even taking care of my kids.

Of course they come first, but I have to make sure that my wellbeing is there so I can be there for

[00:17:20] Jordan Smith Reynolds: you can be there. Exactly.

[00:17:22] Wendy Parr: yeah. So constantly asking, like, how am I, where am I, what do I need, what do I need to do in the world? How do I need to show up? That's a constant evolution. And the cool thing is like with the compass course.

I have a process and all these categories and areas that we touch upon. We can just go back to them like, Oh, what, you know, what needs to, it's not like we don't reinvent the wheel every time we just go back to explore it again. So yes, your songwriting, you know, I'm sure there's this. There's lyrics or there's melodies.

There's, there's things that you'd be like, yeah, that's not, I can't say that. I don't feel that. But when, when you're clear about who you are, you know why. And so you're like, Oh no, no, that's too, that's too frou frou for me. I need more like, you know, bad ass independent women or I'm saying female right now, but like, I'm, I'm more of a hero than I am, uh, that, you know, so when you know that you're like, Oh, that's, that's going into my performance.

That's going to my. I'm going to say costume, but that's going into my fashion. That's going into my Merch, my drawings, my art needs to represent me, so it all ties in,

[00:18:33] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Mm hmm. So you can really get into that specificity a lot, a lot clearer. Awesome.

[00:18:40] Wendy Parr: When I was, when I was young and writing songs like I'd say maybe in my late teens, twenties, probably twenties, and I had a band, and I remember the band, my MD would tell everybody, Oh, hey, in this song, after, um, after the first chorus, there's an extra two bars, so, you know, be aware of that. And that happened in most of my songs.

There was an extra couple bars somewhere in the song. And when I started writing more for other people and writing, like kind of honing in a little bit more pop style, I eliminated that because it's, it's not the norm, right. But I recognize like, Oh, as an artist though. For me, I wanted those bars. Cause as the singer, I needed a moment to breathe.

I'm like, I'm not ready for the next emotional moment. I need to breathe. I need a pause before I start telling the rest, next part of the story. And my goal as a songwriter, if I still feel that way, put it back in. And and also as an artist doing that would make my music very specifically unique. And it could be in a way that people don't register why, but there's something different about it.

Oh, but that's my, that's a little signature right there. 

And that was driven by my storytelling. That was driven by my own emotional need. Right. So interesting, you know, throw them back in there and you're like, Oh, that's. That's something different. Right.

[00:19:59] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm hmm. Yeah. And I relate to that very personally because I've been, it's, it's not exactly adding new measures, but two of my favorite songs that I've written that feel really close to home are written in 7. 4. Which is bizarre for the verses, but for that same intent, which is to just have a little bit of space before I get into the,

[00:20:20] Wendy Parr: So cool. So again, finding out that like, Oh, this is my propensity. And we find those things out in music and we need to find those things out about ourselves as well. Right. Like I was doing a record we were doing a string arrangement. And so we're trying to figure it out. First, the producer and I sat and tried to do the string arrangement together.

And that just took. That just didn't work. So he said, why don't I make a skeleton of what I hear and feel? And then you can come in and tell me what you like and changes. It gives us a stronger starting point. Cool. Do that. So I came back, you know, the next day it's the string arrangement and I kept saying, I don't like that note.

I don't like that note. I don't like that note. And he's like, okay, you don't like, I think it was sevenths. He's like, you don't like sevenths. Okay. They're out. And then he liked to noodle where like the, he likes staircases. So there'd be like a melody up and a melody down. And I was like, I only like that once in a while, I, and I actually prefer intervals.

So we changed some of those to being, because intervals for me were more parts. Like I like everything to feel like a part I could sing. Like I want to be able to string, sing the violin part. I don't like noodling. So once we did that first arrangement, I knew his propensities. And he knew mine and so he could lean into mine more.

He's like, okay Wendy likes this and she likes more of this and i'm gonna put myself in there and i'm gonna give her these things So then everything went faster because he understood me more,

[00:21:44] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yes. Yeah. And that understanding is so important. Yeah. I think what you said about understanding your role too. Like if you're working with an artist, you're going to want to be leaning into what's understanding them, understanding where they're coming from and leaning into that whenever you need to.

Yeah. That's, that's great. Yeah, it's so important to understand that role. So there's a song that's been coming to mind as we've been talking. Adrian Linkers has a song called promise. Pendulum, I think promises a pendulum. Yeah. Which is her way of saying that people change times change and like there's, and yeah, so you won't.

Yeah. So I think having this core set of who you are. But allowing space and room for you to grow and to evolve. 

[00:22:30] Wendy Parr: Absolutely.

[00:22:31] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yeah, I love

[00:22:33] Wendy Parr: Absolutely.

[00:22:34] Jordan Smith Reynolds: So I, and what I'm hearing is checking in with yourself is really important and that you have in this, in this course, you have kind of a touchstone of how you do like, okay, I need to check in and see where I'm at again.

[00:22:47] Wendy Parr: Sure so we've all heard, you know, there are no mistakes. We just lessons we learn and and i'm You know, the cornerstone of my coaching is losing perfectionism. And, and that's because I struggled with it as a kid. I was certainly taught a lot of it. I had my own, you know, propensity for it, what have you.

I was taught like everything had to be a certain way. And so I still have to, it's literally my philosophy of life and I still have to practice it and catch myself when I'm, you know, Oh, you're trying to get it right kind of thing. 

When I heard it described that everything just runs in this order. You take an action. It starts with a thought, an idea, an idea, right? You have a desire, a goal. You take an action. You reflect upon it. You adjust. You take another action. That's it. Rinse, repeat. And in that, in that way, it's like, yeah, there are no mistakes that way. There's no did I get it right or wrong?

If we just constantly do that. I take an action. I reflect. That's what's important. Like, how did that work? How did that, how'd that turn out last time? How'd that feel? How does it feel now? And then we make some adjustments and then we take a new action with those adjustments. We actually get to keep growing.

And so that's just life. There's no, like, you just keep doing that. And hopefully through reflection and growth, we just keep making better choices that suit us. The choices we make become better because. I'm curating a life that works for me. I'm I'm making choices and having people around me that feel good.

I'm making choices that fill my life and day with things I love doing. So it's not I'm getting whatever X thing right according to society or religion or anything else. I'm making choices that suit me and feel good. I just boil it right down here to this tea right here, which I have a whole thermos of right there.

When I When I realized that I, if I just drink tea, I feel better. I just, I feel better if I drink, I drink herbal tea and I have a whole cabinet herbs that I mix and I make my own little brews and I have a couple of favorite.

[00:24:49] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:24:50] Wendy Parr: And I have a couple of favorite tea shops where I buy their, their mixes.

shout out to High Garden Tea in Nashville and Wild Terra LA. Um, But literally I just, I have a thermos of tea and I have a electric tea kettle in the other room and I have my little cabinet. This is at my studio. I have the same thing at home because I just feel better if I drink tea all day. So I make sure I drink tea all day and like literally life's better just with that.

This is a very minor thing right now. But if I, if I keep adding those up and stacking those up, my day is better. And if I can eliminate as many things as possible that this makes my day feel like. Crap, I'm really hedging my bets here, right? So, learning ourselves and knowing like, you know, with songwriting, like, I love collaborating.

And I realized how much I love collaborating. So, I, you know, I was coaching, coaching, coaching a lot. And then I was, started collaborating, I was living in India and I was doing a lot more songwriting and collaborative. And so I was like, okay. In New York, I need to change my schedule more and I want to be songwriting three days a week and coaching on the other days.

And I need to make sure I've got more songwriting in my schedule. So that, cause it was like, Oh, that, I feel great doing that. It makes me happier. I'm going to do more of that. And then of course we look at incorporating the, okay, I'm doing that. Now, can it be an income stream so that I can take care of myself that way as well?

[00:26:18] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Sure.

[00:26:19] Wendy Parr: Yeah.

[00:26:20] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. 

I think that's, that's the struggle is getting lost, trying to make that balance, right? For me, it's like, I think we can get really lost in the in between because we need to be able to zoom out, see everything, and then we also need to get like super fine details. How do you as a coach help artists and songwriters get through the stress of that, right?

Because it's, it's emotionally. exhausting and energy wise. It's just difficult to zoom out, zoom in at the level we need to.

[00:26:51] Wendy Parr: Yes. So there's a few things around that. 

One is looking at like making a five year plan, like meditating on what you'd like your life to look like in five years. What do you want to be doing? What, how do you, you know, if it's, I want to be on tour, if it's, I want to be making music for sync, like these are very different directions.

These are very, they require different actions, different focuses. They require a different networking group. Like I'm going to go, I'm going to go find the people to move myself into that. That career, they're going to, they could be very different groups. So meditating on what you want your life to look like in five years, and then meditating on meditating doesn't have to be like Om Shanti, you know, literally can just be, I'm just going to sit and think I'm going to write, I'm going to write out all the goals.

How do I want my life to look? What make a Pinterest board of it? Like whatever way you visualize. Bring you know, get yourself clear about it. 

and then make a one year goal. Like what would I like to have accomplished in the next year? And then you reverse engineer. So what steps do I need to take to build that?

Um, and then your actions can become a lot more clear and you can chart them on the calendar and you can look at like, And every week you can assess like, where am I? Am I growing my community? Am I making headway? What? How else? And then you also in your conversations, that's gonna help a lot where if you know that you want to be writing for sync and you're in a co write, you're like, and you say that like, Oh, I'd really love to write for sync.

Maybe you're writing for sync that day. Like, Hey, let's write something for sync. Or maybe someone in the room is like, Oh, I know someone you should connect to. So if you're clear about what you're going for, you're just going to have conversation around it. And now other people in the world are going to help expand that for you, right?

It's going to get exponential and doing the really cool coach taught me that told me this one, Chris, really good person. I get very, like, my list of things to do is enormous and I feel like I never get enough done. And he said, well, there's only two reasons that happens. Either you're not doing anything, so it doesn't get done.

Or you have too much on your plate. I'm definitely not, I'm not not doing anything. This is like, my team leader once said to my team, he was like Wendy often will say, hey, we're going to do this thing. And I'm thinking, there's no way we're going to get that done. And then we do. She just has energy for days.

I don't know how we do it. prioritizing every day, you can do it the night before you can do it in the morning, you can do it as you look at your week. The three most important things that you need to do, do them first in your day. Everything else pushes them away. And I found I would do the easier, quicker, um, or just sometimes like, oh, they need that.

So I'll do that thing for them right now. Or, and so my priorities got pushed, pushed, pushed, and then it makes me feel bad because the thing I really want to do is moving further away, right? Do the first, the three most important things. Do them first. And then you're like, Oh, I slammed that. I did that. And now I have the rest of my day to do other important things or the thing that needs to get done.

Like that job or that, you know, that errand or whatever, but priorities first. Shift your energy, power, confidence, and move the needle on what you actually want to move the needle on.

[00:30:06] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yeah, I love that advice. And I found I do my best writing, all that stuff, in the morning, actually. So when I prioritize myself, that, that resonates with me quite a bit. 

What I do struggle with, though, is When I, when I do that and I prioritize that stuff, when I have to go back into, I do a lot of web development as well to kind of help supplement things.

Um, when I go back into that kind of work, it's not my number one passion, right? When I get into it, I just want to be back in the creative stuff. So I think for me, it's kind of doing that, like prioritizing the stuff at the beginning of the day. But I've been toying around with the idea of just like dedicating, you know, a day or two of the week to the, to the other things that I have to do.

And then really prioritizing my songwriting first the other days. Cause I find if I, if I am really into it creatively, sometimes it's really hard for me to, to transition back out of it.

[00:31:01] Wendy Parr: Totally true. So yeah, that, that can be, that's why I was saying I did the same where I was like, Okay, these days are songwriting days and these are coaching days. Or, this half day was my songwriting and the rest of it. So I would block it in big chunks, so that can help a lot. And it also gives you more time to flow and focus.

And then on the day that you're doing web design, you're like, this is my day. So it's not like, Oh, I wish I was doing that. You're like, no, no, this is my day today. I have that tomorrow. And that's the other thing is that when you put things on your calendar like that, it doesn't hurt as much because you know, Oh no, it's there.

I have it. it's not one day. It's not next week. It's not, maybe it's going to happen. No, no, I have it. That's happening. So, um, I agree with you on the scheduling part. The other thing I think that's really important is, and not easy. Like this isn't even, this isn't always easy for me. I have to practice.

I practice this. We all do practice. Nobody's Buddha. 

Um, but it's the gratitude of. What is the web design doing for you? Like, what do you, and how can you bring same thing? Like, who am I in as a character? Who am I archetypally? How can I bring that into my web? If you have humor, can I bring some humor into this design or can I, you know, can I turn on great music while I'm doing it, but the gratitude of, is it, is it taking care of you and your family?

Is it? Is it a thing that is allowing you to do the art until the art becomes the thing that you can do full time? Right? So the gratitude, practicing the gratitude part complaining like ruins us. It ruins us. It ruins our brain. It ruins our heart. It ruins our spirit. So how can I practice the gratitude and recognize and acknowledge when I'm, you're actually getting something from it.

It might not be how you want to spend your time. It might, but what is it giving me? Because it's really valuable. And I mean, challenges are all there for us to overcome. So the challenges literally do make us better people, stronger people, confident people, like you believe in yourself more. There's so much we actually do get out of it, but it's also the, you know, I, it keeps you very grounded. There's a real world groundedness to it. And. If you give up the thing that's supporting you too soon because you only want to do music, what I've seen happen, number one, is you can struggle a lot more at times, right? Until, right? I think it becomes more obvious when you're like, yes, we can let this go more because I'm making that money over here.

I can let this go until it becomes full time, you know? Um, But when people jump that too soon, now, anything I say is going to be like one man's food is another man's poison. Like for some people, it puts a lot of fire and makes them hustle more. So that's important, right? Like that could be valuable, but.

For some people, what happens is let's say you're a guitar player and you're a player for hire. When you don't have a supplemental income, you now have to take every job that comes. And now your music is filled with stuff, work you don't want to do because you're like, that's a paycheck, not music. I want to be playing. So when you can get the paycheck over here and then choose. The work you're doing over here, your music is now, that's the kind of music I want to play. That's the kind of band I want to be with. That's the kind of tour I want to be on. That's the kind of record. And so if you allow that shift to happen more organically or slowly, whatever it is, your music is now all aligned with you as well.

So that's a consideration.

[00:34:36] Jordan Smith Reynolds: I think that's a really important point. 

I read Elizabeth Gilbert's big magic and that, that makes a similar point to, I think what she says in it is kind of she cautions you to not put all that pressure on your art. You know, which I think, like you said, it's going to be an individual choice, what's, what's going to be best for that person, but I do see a lot of value in not Yeah, not putting a bunch of that pressure on your music because it's

[00:35:06] Wendy Parr: same time, I'll say, Hey,

[00:35:08] Jordan Smith Reynolds: right?

Right that needs to be

[00:35:10] Wendy Parr: we have to get out of our comfort zone over and over. We need to take risks. Like literally success comes when you're in over your head. So you've, you've got to say yes to things that are like, Oh, I'm going to be challenged by that. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to figure it out.

You know, Misty voice is a client. I work with an artist who's so beautiful, beautiful singer, songwriter, and every gig I've seen her take, she's literally learned a new instrument. She's learned. How to, you know, trigger stems. She she's like, I've literally seen her on every gig, have to learn something new, not have to, but choose to.

Right. And I admire it so much. And I, and I told her, so I was like, and I pointed it out and she was like, Oh, she was like, thanks for telling me that. Cause you know, you forget sometimes that you're just like. I'm a newbie or, Oh, this is so hard. This thing in front of me so hard. And yes, as a creative and someone who takes risks and is being challenged, you're always going to be climbing new mountains.

So you feel like you're at the bottom again. But can I remind you to turn around and look at the 7, 8, 22 you've already climbed?

[00:36:13] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah

[00:36:15] Wendy Parr: Cause that's the, I was like, you literally learning a new instrument for this gig! Like, I applaud you! Yeah.

[00:36:23] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, yeah, and that elevates the performance each time. I'm sure just a new instrument new thing you're thinking of. Yeah

[00:36:30] Wendy Parr: I took a, a gig, I had a, a client who was wooing me to music supervise a film. And so we sat down and I said, uh, okay, I want to know what, what you're expecting me. What you were expecting of me for this job, because it sounds like a really big challenge, which I love, like I'm going to be doing something I've never done, but I want to know that I can deliver with excellence.

So, and the job was for the film Wonderland and the director had written songs for it and the characters in the film are all, each scene has a character singing. It's a very non musical musical. It's like a dark comedy. Um, and there's music everywhere. And so I, I heard, I heard all the music and I said, well, we're going to need to rewrite the songs.

Like I knew that every song needed to be stronger. They were written like, like a screenplay. They were written very narrative and they needed stronger choruses and they needed more arc and more changes in the rhythms and things like that. So my job was co writing all the songs. Co producing, I brought on a co producer to work with me and we produced all the songs for the film.

I vocal produced all the artists and the actors in the film for each song. And then he said, and then I want you creatively, like any input you want to give on the film, like from casting to editing, which I did, um, which was so fun. And actually Jack Dishel is in the film. And it was a, it was a blast cause I really got so much creative.

I got to give a lot of creative input. There were edit suggestions that I gave that actually went into the film. And and I'm going to say they're minor compared to the whole film, but it was really like it was meaningful to be appreciated and to be able to contribute. You know, and yeah, it was a super challenging experience and so much fun.

So there's like nine original songs that I co wrote and co produced and had a blast doing. Um, and that was the thing for me. It was like, this is a huge fun challenge and I love films. I love cinematography. I love filmmaking storytelling. I just want to know that I can deliver. Like I have the, I have the skills to do it.

And he even asked me at one point, Can you do the score, also? We weren't gonna have any score. And I said, oh no no, the film needs a score. It'll be really weird for it to be silent and then a song. Like, we need that score to like, take us from song to song. So he asked me, can you do that? And I said, well I probably could.

But this is my first film. And I think that I'm like, just working on the whole soundtrack of songs and producing them. You know, I, I think that's going to be like plenty load. Like, it'd be good for us to get a composer who's done films and like, is very you know, prolific at that. I think that would be too much pressure for me to do both, but I can deliver really well here.

And it was a great choice to make. They got a great composer for the score and love the score. But I know also for me, like the work that it took to do that, to do the other at the same time,

[00:39:23] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:39:25] Wendy Parr: while I was coaching and doing, you know, other jobs. So.

[00:39:29] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. It's important to know what roles you want to take on and everything too. I know we keep, we keep coming back to the theme of, of knowing yourself and that

[00:39:38] Wendy Parr: Yeah, it's so true. You know, we, I know that I'm a person who I will put, like, I'll forget my own needs. And then I don't know that I'm there until I'm, I'm like over the edge. Like I'm like, uh, I mean, you know, and then I go, Oh, I forgot to ask for what I need, or I, I I'm putting seven things in front of myself.

So that's, yeah. So just, you know, and that, that's, that goes for like personal professional, it goes for like every artist and songwriter I know is overscheduled. I mean, it's. Capitalism, but it's, you know, I have an artist who was in a session, you know, they were booked for a session every day and they kept telling their, their team, like, I like working with these producers and these songwriters.

Like I've, I've been two years in the rooms with lots and lots of people. I really love working with them. I only want to work with them. Stop putting me in the room with stranger every day. And they just kept having to like say no to, or not show up to. Um, or they were, they were showing up and they're like, I don't want to be here.

Like, I, I know at this point who I really like working with. I just want to keep making music with them right now. And so then it was a matter of, you know, communicating with the team that unfortunately at the time wasn't listening yet, cause they just kept putting them in rooms and they were like, look, it's really hard to be vulnerable with a stranger over and over and over and another stranger, another stranger, so, but again, that's after.

Like two years of doing it. So at that point they knew I got my people. So you got to be able to then communicate that and have a team that supports you to do it. Which again, those changes happened, but, and speak up for yourself, right. And have people listen that's just, and that's, but then that's part of the learning and the lesson, you know, other people, same.

I remember another artist I was writing with, and he said. I feel like it's Groundhog Day. I've spent every day for the last year in a writing session. I don't even have anything to say anymore. I'm like, well, let's write that song. Let's write the song about you feeling like that. We wrote a beautiful song.

And then on a personal level, we just talked and I said, it sounds like you need a break. Like you need to go take a vacation and you need to go live some life. Like to have things to write about, you need to have life. And I was like, you need to go live more life. 

And he's like, yeah, I just, I see the same people all the time.

It's all the same. It was like, so, and he did, he took like a month. I think, I think it was Alaska. I think he went to Alaska. He's like, I'm just going off. And then since then, you know, has taken on different projects is it was just life, like they needed more life and less, just driving it business or driving it their career.

including myself, like I would love for that to happen for people before they're burnt out, before they're like, Oh, I'm at my wits end and here's why.

[00:42:35] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:42:37] Wendy Parr: you know, that's when you see tours canceled and that's when you see, you know, artists just because the stress is the, the demands are too high for too long.

and without the reflection or without the self reflection, the team be recognizing it, reflecting, making choices together. That all support, you know, the writer, the artist. What do you need?

[00:42:59] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:43:00] Wendy Parr: You know?

[00:43:01] Jordan Smith Reynolds: love that. Thank you.

[00:43:02] Wendy Parr: it's important to ask that.

[00:43:04] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. And I've, to your point of writing the song about hating, you know, writing these songs with all these other people. I think that's, uh, I, I recently went through something. I was just talking to another artist, Fresh Hot Waffles. They'll have an episode come out after this.

Um, it's just a lovely indie folk name, I think, too. Fresh Hot Waffles. They're really great. But they talked about how They'd, like Ryan is one of the guys in the group and he got in this rut and couldn't, like, write anything else except for this being in a rut song for like a month. But yeah, that's, that's what it took though was just writing that song, writing what you are, even though, you know, what they write, their bread and butter is like poppy, upbeat folk stuff.

They had to, he had to kind of sit in that space and, and write there for a month and get it out of his system and keep moving.

[00:43:54] Wendy Parr: And then do something to get out of the rut. I mean, that helps you because you're acknowledging it. But also, like, why am I in a rut? Like, what do I need to do? You know, to just play a VR game. Oh my gosh, I got to do that!

[00:44:09] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:44:11] Wendy Parr: Yeah, I don't want to live in a virtual world. But wow, was it amazing?

[00:44:14] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Oh, yeah.

[00:44:15] Wendy Parr: like, Oh my God, I'm climbing so high.

It was just crazy. But, but it is that I, that came to mind. Cause I'm like, we need a perspective shift. Like you need to get out of your routine. You need it. It could be in a day. It could be a VR for a minute. It just, it, I don't think VR is the answer really. I think nature is. And I think that, you know, quiet is and getting out of.

Getting out of your routine literally like I need to see a different street I need to you know, go on a long drive go to you know If you live in California LA go to Northern California go to the desert for a day Like just do something if it can be longer even better But like do something to clear the palette get another shifted perspective.

See how small we are on this Planet, this universe, you know, we are the center of our own movies and we make a lot of drama. My twins are two years old and, I want cheese, I want cheese, mommy, I want cheese, I want cheese. And

she's like jumping up and down to open the fridge and we both want cheese. And I'm like, wow, we exacerbate ourselves. She's making drama where I'm like, babe, I got you, let me just open the fridge for you. There it is. Right. And I'm like, we do this to ourselves. Now, she's two, like, like, granted, like, I get, I get that there's a lot of parameters and a lot of things that she can't comprehend yet, but it's really kind of the same thing.

Like we, yeah, we, we, I'm just, I'm just sure that when I die, I'm going to see my life and find out, like. Oh wow, I was really off track there, and that didn't matter at all, you know? Things that we just hold so much importance to, and the whole day. No, it's really not. It's really not. We're all here to like, just grow as humans spiritually, and make community, and connect with each other.

You know, that's the other thing I would say, is really connect with other people. Being a creative means a lot of solitude and a lot of alone time and a lot of, uh, we need it, but we also need human connection. So I think that finding your people and having people you can talk to about your stuff that get it, that get it is really important, right?

So finding your community I think is very important. So we're, you know, you could just hash things out sometimes and be like, can I vent for a minute? And they're like, yep, I feel you. Or can, hey, can we grab coffee? Or we then just having people who get the world that you live in is really important. And then you don't feel alone in it, and you don't feel as like, Like, I've come to the conclusion there's no, Oh, it's me.

It's just me. I'm that way. It's my problem. It's a I don't think there's a me problem on a planet with seven billion people. It's a societal problem. It's a capitalistic problem. It's a gender issue. It's a racism. It's institutionalized. It's, uh, classism. Like, it's a it's a It's a much bigger thing. Having that's causing you to have a situation is more likely than it's just, oh, it's you.

It's all about you. It's 'cause that's just, that's 'cause you made that choice, you know? So when we can connect to the, to more people, we can see that and it, that's very unburdening as well. Why do we write songs and listen to music? I'm not alone. That person just wrote my story. I feel, oh my God, that emotion.

I feel them. I feel that so hard that that's why we're. Why we all love music. We recognize we're not alone.

[00:47:45] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for spending some time with me today. Um, I think this will be really helpful for folks listening. I imagine most of the audience are songwriters themselves. Um,

[00:47:55] Wendy Parr: hope so.

[00:47:56] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yes. Um, do you have any other last words of advice for for songwriters? Um, I'd also love that to really know what you offer as a coach, um, with these, with these programs and also where they can find you.

[00:48:10] Wendy Parr: Absolutely. The last thing I'll suggest is, spend a moment, like, pull out a baby picture of yourself, a favorite childhood picture, something of you, like, age eight or under, and look, like, first I recommend, like, keeping it on hand, like, have it at your bedside, have it on your phone, like, see yourself as, as who you are, because that's you right there, like, little you is you. And then show them your life. Like show them what you're doing and how cool your life is and who you're hanging with and show them who you are because I bet they're really happy and proud and excited to be you now. Again, it's like that perspective of like, oh right, look what I got you, holy cow, right?

Wouldn't like seven year old me be like, what? We lived in India, you know, uh, we have kids now, you know, things like that. So that's one. Um, and then where you find me is Wendy Parr, P A R R, wendyparr. com. I'm Wendy Parr on all the platforms and I have a mailing list that will send you. You'll find out like events I'm doing, or I S I send out blogs with creative tips and stories and things like that.

Things like this conversation. Um, and what else? I have a whole pathway of courses that three are available to just purchase. No, four, four are available to just purchase and take on your own. Starting with navigator, which is really that starting point of like your brand. It's a mini course. Blueprint is the foundational course of really breaking through like.

Why do I do what I do and where are my fears and resistances? And that course really helps you clear those out. So you can move forward, trusting, believing in yourself, letting go of the things that are stopping you. Um, and then sound chart, just about your sound. There's a style course, which is really good for singers and songwriters.

It's called voice maps. And it's really to play with your style. Like how do I play with, it helps your songwriting tremendously. It's going to help you get out of the habits and things that you do all the time. And be able to make new choices, melodically, vocally. Um, and Compass is the flagship, that's the six month program with me.

And our next cycle is end of February, top of March, and that's for emerging and pro artists. And that's the deep dive into who you are. And we have industry mentors in it. And you can always email me. There's a contact sheet. You can always send a email with a question. You can book a consult. I do, uh, you know, one time consults and I do one on one vocal coaching and, and songwriting.

Uh, I coach songwriting as well. So vocal coaching and songwriting, I really love helping artists like see the gold in their songs, like where the strength is in their writing and then where the, like, this is your golden nugget of the song. And then we can build more and more of those until the. The whole song is like fire.

Yeah.

[00:51:12] Jordan Smith Reynolds: I love that. I know we didn't talk much about the voice part of it. I also teach voice. So, um, that's super fun to hear that you're doing a lot of vocal coaching as well.

[00:51:21] Wendy Parr: Oh, everything for me started in vocal coaching. Like it all still does. Like my, I am a one on one vocal coach to, you know, Regina Spector and Sara Bareilles and Melanie Martinez and Mark Basie and the Midnight because the beginning of finding your voice is opening up your voice, like when your instrument.

Is balanced and open and free. That is the core of you expressing yourself, your life force, your personality comes out when there's no block here when there's no, and I don't need not even emotional block. I'm talking like if you are physically and mechanically twisting up, like if you're turning the pegs on your guitar to change pitch, instead of fretting, we're not getting the most out of this instrument.

So when we start opening this up, it's like, Oh, that's my voice. And it's more free and fun and easy. And as Regina said, her songwriting changed because. Her, her vocal capabilities grew. And so, Oh, I can write here now. My choruses can sit here now and, and I can go there. So songwriting grows because your voice can do more.

[00:52:24] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Well, thank you so much again for being here, Wendy.

[00:52:26] Wendy Parr: Thank you for having me. I love sharing and, and I sincerely hope that I had a positive impact on the listeners and, and yeah, don't be

shy. Reach out. 

[00:52:35] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Let us know. All right. Thank you so much, Wendy. I'll see ya.