INTRO
Hello everyone and welcome to the Song Saloon. I'm excited to be back. I apologize the episodes haven't been as consistent, and unfortunately that trend will probably continue throughout, uh, the rest of the year, I'm trying to make space for more of my own songwriting pursuits and the, the podcast takes quite a bit of time I'm hoping to get more of a rhythm figured out by the beginning of next year, but you probably will get a few more before, before the end of the year. 

In any case, I'm really excited about today's episode with Sadie Gustafson-Zook.

I actually met Sadie through Brittany Ann Tranbaugh, who was one of our first guests on this podcast. And I believe I lived in Boston Around the same time as Sadie as well. She worked at Club Passim with, uh, Hannah Siglin, who was also a past guest on the show. Club Passim is a great venue in the Boston area. So it was fun to talk about that for a bit. Sadie Gustafson Zuk is an Indiana based, Boston nurtured, jazzy folk musician whose pure voice, intricate guitar playing, and award winning songwriting is sure to leave you humming along and pondering your own life choices.

Sadie's songs have been endorsed by some of the most respected songwriting contests in the country, winning Kerrville Folk Festival's 2022 New Folk Contest, as well as placing as a finalist in 2020, earning second place at the Rocky Mountain Folk Fest Songwriter Showcase, and winning first place at the New Song Plus Leaf Songwriting Contest.

On Sadie's most recent 2024 album, Where I Wanna Be, Sadie takes the listener along on an intimate, analog recorded journey as Sadie decides where to call. Um, I think that'll become very apparent why she's gotten these accolades as you listen. I really appreciate her approach to lyric writing I love the flowy nature of the acoustic guitar fingerpicking in this song in particular. So I think you'll get a lot out of the episode. Have a great time.

[00:01:55] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Hi, I'm Sadie Gustafson Zook, and this is my song Autumn's Fragrance.

[00:05:01] Jordan Smith Reynolds: All right, thank you so much. That was beautiful. , I would love to just kind of jump in with, your story behind the song. 

[00:05:09] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Sure, I wrote this Um, in the fall of 2022 and I was living with some friends in Brooklyn for a month, kind of in between trying to figure out where I wanted to live. Um, I had had a big move from Boston to Seattle almost a year before that, and then had a breakup and then moved to Nashville. Was trying out Brooklyn for a moment.

So I was really bopping all over the place. And, um, part of the song was just like the energy of being in New York. Like, I don't know exactly, but I don't think I would have written this song if I like, hadn't been in my friend's house. In Brooklyn, um, but kind of just reflecting on the ways that I was telling the story about this breakup versus what I imagined the other person was telling their friend, like thinking about the way in which everybody has their own kind of angle and there's not really a I don't think there's any real absolute truth to it.

It's just, um, it is purely objective and that has to be good enough.

[00:06:40] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah,

[00:06:41] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: which is kind of a bummer or maybe it's good. I don't know.

[00:06:46] Jordan Smith Reynolds: That's funny you mention that, because before this, we were looking at your song, Anyone, for a second, from your, uh, your past album. I feel like there's a bit of a common theme there with, um, seeing the person with the, from the grocery store, uh, like holding

[00:07:00] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Oh, yeah,

[00:07:01] Jordan Smith Reynolds: thinking about, oh, what's that person's story?

And then everyone else has like their own paradigm looking at that situation happening, do you see a correlation there?

[00:07:11] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: I do. Yes, that that is a good, a good correlation. I haven't drawn that before, but astute observation. Ha ha

[00:07:22] Jordan Smith Reynolds: I love that idea of just looking at things from different angles., that's really, like, An important piece of figuring out, connection with other people, right? And our humanity, um, and it sounds like you're doing a ton of traveling, whether,, it was what you wanted or not with the situation of like moving and the breakup and stuff, but that can be a really big piece of, connecting with, with people as well.

And it sounds like this is kind of like a connection song to me. Um,

[00:07:50] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah, I think it, it's interesting to try to figure out, like, what my perspective is.

Yeah, like trying to figure out based on the people I talk to what my reality is. And in that specific time in my life, I was Like, traveling a lot, obviously, and talking to a lot of different friends from a lot of different times in my life. And, and getting a lot of different perspectives. But they're all based on the perspective that I give them.

To be like, hey, this is what happened. And then they're like, okay, based on that information, here are the things we're saying. I think, yeah, when I was writing this song, it was, It's very much me trying to, like, take a step back and trying to be objective, even though, uh, that's not really possible.

[00:08:46] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, let's talk about some like specific moments in the lyrics where you feel like that's happening. You have the lyrics in front of you.

[00:08:53] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Mm, yes.

[00:08:54] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:08:56] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: So the first verse, I don't entirely know how that happened. I think that that phrase just, like, came to me because of New York.

[00:09:05] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:09:06] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Just, like, it being the fall and the air being chilly and, like, The leaves dying and also it being really gorgeous.

And yeah, the fleeting nature of everything. the second verse where I'm talking about the simple story, I feel like that is kind of what I was just saying. Where it's like, I don't know, I feel like that part's kind of

[00:09:35] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, yeah, I see that. Um, I also really love the kind of callback from the first verse to the end. We have this death and beauty mixes up the gentle balance of learning from the past. As we try to figure out how to move forward, nothing ever lasts. And then the end is the autumn is the fragrance of easy answers not continuing to hold.

 I think those are pretty well connected as well, just with the, The feeling of, of being in New York. I also really like the, I love finger picking in general, but,, I like it cause it's like, it's beautiful, but also kind of has this nervous energy. Like it's just continually moving forward.

[00:10:15] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah, I was

[00:10:16] Jordan Smith Reynolds: like New York to me.

[00:10:18] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah, the frenetic energy of New York and emotional unrest

[00:10:23] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:10:24] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: definitely was at play during this song.

[00:10:27] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Can we talk about the, just like your, your pattern in songwriting? So like, did you start with some lyrics or was it like this riff you were playing in, uh, D-A-D-F-A-D? Is that what you said? This one

[00:10:41] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah, it's, uh, F sharp. Yeah,

[00:10:44] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Oh,

[00:10:44] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: dad fashad

[00:10:46] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Oh, okay. Yeah. I've actually done a song.

[00:10:48] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: as much.

[00:10:49] Jordan Smith Reynolds: In the, in the sad version of that. The,

[00:10:51] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Uh huh.

[00:10:51] Jordan Smith Reynolds: f Yeah.

[00:10:54] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Um, yeah, I generally do have some kind of instrumental chordal thing happening. When I start a song. Like sometimes a phrase, uh, like melodic phrase will come to me and then I'll try to find chords that work well with that. But lately what's been happening has been more at the opposite where it's like, I'm just sitting down at the guitar trying to make some sounds that I haven't made yet.

And then, um, from there a melody will come. So. I think that that's what happened with this one. I don't entirely remember, but I, that, that would be my, um, my best guess.

[00:11:36] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Yeah. You said it came out a few years ago. Right. So it's been

[00:11:42] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Uh, I wrote it a few years ago. Yeah, it's not out yet. Well, maybe it is now.

[00:11:48] Jordan Smith Reynolds: by the time you're hearing this. Yeah. 

Um, and you, and you've worked with some, some string players on recording this song. Right?

[00:11:56] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: yeah, so I recorded this also in New York, um, which, I've done a lot of recording in New York for someone who doesn't live in New York, but, Um, my first album, Sin of Certainty, I recorded with Alex Spiegelman, um, who's a great producer and wind player and multi instrumentalist out of, um, Brooklyn. And so he was actually the impetus for recording this set of songs because, and we recorded it last August.

So August of 2023, I

[00:12:32] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yes. Yeah.

[00:12:33] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Um, and he was like trying out. A studio and wanted to like. Just figure out the board in the room and was like, Hey, I'd like a small project, um, to work on. Would you, do you have any songs that you want to do? And I was like, Oh my gosh, this would be fun. So yeah, with this one we had his roommate, Emily Hope Price come in and she plays the cello and she is really great and she just like did a couple passes and then we kind of just like stacked the parts on top of each other.

But it really added a nice lush, like, I don't know, we were going for some classical vibes. I feel like this whole set of songs. Because they're just, like, sad. I was really hoping for some just really dramatically sad strings, and that's what I got. So, I'm very happy with it.

[00:13:27] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Yeah, cello feels so great with this stuff. Um, I've released a few songs with cello now, and I'm always just so happy when I get to collaborate with that instrument. It's just, it's so beautiful. Um, okay. 

I want to talk to you about the songwriting community in New York. Um, cause it sounds like you've done some recording stuff there.

We've had, I've had a few guests on the podcast, like recent guests. Maybe you'll have to dig a few. Um, once you listen to this episode, but, um, and a lot of the time songwriters, if they've been in New York, they'll have said like they, they enjoyed it, but they've, um, Like they had a hard time finding their community and then they end up in L.

A. and they really liked it. But I want to have someone that's like steeped in East Coast talk about it and what you like about the community. Because I feel like it's been kind of, it's turned into this L. A. versus New York thing a little bit on the podcast. And I want to hear more of the New York side of things.

[00:14:24] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: I mean, well, to be fair, I've only lived in New York. I lived there for one month, the month that I wrote this song.

[00:14:32] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, so the official opinion. That'd be great.

[00:14:34] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: and besides that, the extent of my East Coast knowledge is that I lived in Boston for like almost five years before that. Um, so I have more opinions about Boston, but I did really like being in New York and I was pretty tempted to move and now I'm not that tempted just because I love cheap things and I love Uh chill quality of life Um, but I do have a lot of good friends Um, who are great songwriters in New York.

And it just seems like really like a great place because people of all mediums are really good at what they're doing. So in terms of inspiration, like it's not just one thing. It's not like they're a one industry town. Cause I lived in Nashville for four months and I kind of, I didn't like it that much.

I know you didn't include that in the New York versus L. A., but I feel like it's like New York, L. A., Nashville is also a triangle that exists. Um, And something about just like everybody doing so similar of a thing in Nashville kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Whereas in New York it felt like all of the mediums were informing each other.

Like that I was staying with my friend Jean Rowe, who is pretty tied into like the theater scene. And so, and Emily Hope Price actually, she plays or maybe played, I don't know if she's still doing it, but. Um, the cello with the Hadestown, um, cast.

[00:16:15] Jordan Smith Reynolds: that's awesome.

[00:16:17] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: like just being around

[00:16:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: that show. Sorry.

[00:16:21] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: it's great. Um, I got to see it.

It was very exciting

[00:16:24] Jordan Smith Reynolds: so cool. Was that with, um, when did you see it?

[00:16:28] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: when I lived there, when I lived there for one month in September of 2022,

[00:16:34] Jordan Smith Reynolds: what's, um, What's her name that's in the, uh, The cast that was, uh, Eurydice? Do you remember? I don't

[00:16:41] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: um, right now, who was, uh, it's not Annie DeFranco, Annie, that's,

[00:16:48] Jordan Smith Reynolds: No. Oh, who was it? Oh, Eva Noblezada is her name. Um, I think she's one of the best. I think she's one of the best Broadway singers right now. She's so good. Um,

[00:17:01] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: it was, it was great. I really liked the way that the, like, set was. The set design and that, like, the cool theater. Let's see. It felt like it wasn't trying too hard. Like, there was a really cool part where there was, like, these hanging lights and then there was all this choreography around, like, swinging the hanging lights.

[00:17:24] Jordan Smith Reynolds: the wait for me song.

[00:17:26] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah.

[00:17:27] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:17:28] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Um, and I just, I feel like I'm a sucker for theater that doesn't seem like it's trying too hard. And that felt like very organic in a way that I was like getting behind.

[00:17:40] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Yeah. Cause you get that like, um, kinetic energy of just the stuff going

[00:17:46] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah. And it was like visually really interesting

[00:17:48] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm hmm. Yeah, that's so cool. So you said this cellist that played on Hadestown was also the cellist for this record that you're

[00:17:57] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: for yes. Yes.

[00:17:59] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Very cool. So yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your

[00:18:02] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: no, it's okay. I think the ultimate thing is that I don't have that much to say about New York because I feel like. I don't deserve a say.

[00:18:11] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Okay.

[00:18:12] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Cause I haven't given it like a formal shot, but I, I do. The thing about, so if you haven't checked out Jean Rose music, you got it. Cause she's. She's really great and she's lived in New York for like 15 years, like her whole adult life and otherwise is from New Jersey.

And

[00:18:36] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:18:39] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: was really cool for me because it was an example of like living in New York in a way that felt a little more like grounded than I expected it to be. Um, because she's lived in this apartment for, I think the whole time. That like for maybe 15 years, like for a long time, um, has been able to stay there, even though they don't own it, but, and then they've had people come through, but she really knows her neighbors.

And like, it seemed like it was integrated in a way that I didn't expect was not, not that I didn't expect was possible in New York, but I feel like in movies and stuff, the overall narrative is like, people have like moved to New York and they're very lonely and they never feel a sense of like.

community and that was like not at all what I experienced in her community, um, which I was like, okay, well, I don't want to move to New York if I can't just live in their house and I can't live in their house, so,

[00:19:41] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, that's

[00:19:42] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: um, but, so I think like there's hope, like some people make it happen.

[00:19:47] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, for sure. Um, And maybe we can, uh, talk some time about other songwriters that we can, that I can be, uh, reaching out to there and getting more of the, the New York perspective. Cause it's been, it's been pretty heavy LA perspective recently. So I'd like to, I'd like to broaden that a bit. Um, and sorry, where, where did you say you are right now?

[00:20:08] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: So yeah, right now I live in Goshen, Indiana. Which is my hometown. It's like 45 minutes from South bend and like an hour from Fort Wayne.

[00:20:17] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Okay. Awesome. Um, yeah, you mentioned just having more like the, the easy vibes, which, uh, New York is not known for. Um, I had an artist, Hannah Siglin, who used to live in Boston. I

[00:20:30] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah. Me and Hannah worked at Passim together.

[00:20:33] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Oh, very cool! Okay, awesome. Yeah, cause she's up in, uh, Spokane. Doing, doing her thing there.

And that's, that seems to be a really great fit, uh, for her as well. Um, I love that area, Spokane. Um, that's where my, my in laws are kind of based up there.

[00:20:49] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Oh,

[00:20:50] Jordan Smith Reynolds: we visit pretty often.

[00:20:52] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Nice. Yeah. I was in Seattle for like four months, but we didn't really make it out to Spokane.

[00:20:58] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yeah,

[00:20:59] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: It's kind of out there. It's out of the way.

[00:21:01] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yep, uh, my in laws live in a place called Priest River, which is, uh, in, in Idaho, like North Idaho, and it's like 45 minutes from Spokane, so we were like, it's very, very,

[00:21:13] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Uh, on the other side of the state.

[00:21:16] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, yeah, but I like, I haven't spent a lot of time in Seattle, but I did.

Enjoy the, the small amount of time I was there. 

Um, so yes, let's, let's talk about autumn's fragrance. What, um, what do you see for the, um, this is a single from an EP coming out. Uh, do you want to talk about the project as a whole or, uh, where, where it fits in that, or you're kind of still, I remember you mentioned you might be working that out a bit, uh, currently.

[00:21:44] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah. Um, I mean the EP will be called What I Pushed Below. 

And that is a lyric from this song. Um, and kind of just getting at the idea of, All of the emotions that we just like push down so that we don't have to deal with them. , and the way that they will inevitably spring back up, um, when we have been intentionally not paying attention to them.

Um, so yeah, it, this, this EP is a trio of songs. So it's this one, Autumn's Fragrance. 

It's a song called The End and a song called Wallflower, which actually was just released On my previous album, where I want to be that came out in May. Um, but that version is like an acoustic guitar version. And then on this album, it will be like a piano, a grand piano, epic ballad vibe.

So I'm excited about having, um, both of them out there because they feel really different to sing on different instruments.

[00:22:47] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, I love reimagined songs. That's, um, that's really cool. , do you have a theme? I haven't checked out like your past discography, but do you have like a five syllable must for, for albums or did that just happen for these? Um,

[00:23:03] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Oh.

[00:23:04] Jordan Smith Reynolds: like the, what I pushed below and, uh, where I want to be,

[00:23:08] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: And Sin of Certainty

[00:23:10] Jordan Smith Reynolds: sin of certainty.

Wow. Okay. That's cool.

[00:23:14] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: The one before that was Three, but I don't like that album as much, so it's fine.

[00:23:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, so that doesn't fit the canon

[00:23:21] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: I guess maybe that is my like subconscious prerequisite for choosing a name. You're, you're bringing up all sorts of great observations on this that I hadn't thought about.

[00:23:32] Jordan Smith Reynolds: That's funny. Yeah, you could um, you could start making some haikus out of your album titles

[00:23:38] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Oh my gosh, that's smart.

[00:23:40] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah I also wanted to talk a little bit about the last line you have the autumn is the fragrance of easy answers not continuing Did that come last to you In the writing process, I love that, I love that idea of just, you know, autumn being the end of something like spring and summer, um, and those being the, the easy answers.

I love that comparison and just want to know where that kind of surfaced.

[00:24:07] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Um, honestly, I don't remember. I think usually I do write pretty chronologically, but it also might have been that, I mean, chronologically as in I write a verse and then I write the next one. Um, so, I would assume that I wrote it last, or maybe I was like, this is just such an obvious last line that it must go last.

[00:24:30] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:24:31] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Um, so, I'm sorry, I don't really remember. laughs

[00:24:35] Jordan Smith Reynolds: What does that line, I guess, mean for you, mean to you? Do you want to dive into that a bit more?

[00:24:42] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: I think it's like drawing the comparison between like in the stories that we tell ourselves and other people. We have, we kind of dilute them and simplify them so that our angle is really clear.

And then comparing that to in the fall, well, autumn is the fragrance of easy answers. Not continuing to hold. I think basically. I was just like, I got some more information about the person who I had been dating. And in retrospect, I was like, Oh, does this change the story? Like, is this new information, like how, how should this impact?

how I'm reflecting on the story of our relationship.

[00:25:36] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah,

[00:25:38] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: and it happened in the fall.

[00:25:40] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yeah,

[00:25:40] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: So I think essentially I was just like, wow, the fall is a real time of complication. Everything gets more complicated in the fall. And I think that it also is more like that fall is A niche season where everyone's like, oh, I like summer.

I mean is winter a niche? No, well No, winter's not a niche season. I think it's niche in terms of people don't like the cold, but

[00:26:12] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yeah.

[00:26:13] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: like Yeah, where it's like winter. I mean, kind of what you were saying, the winter and summer, they're like so loud. They're so proud about who they are.

[00:26:23] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:26:27] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: it's so dramatic, but also so fleeting.

And I think that actually the fall is kind of the same, but in the opposite direction. So I don't know, I guess I was just thinking about seasons.

[00:26:44] Jordan Smith Reynolds: I like that the fall kind of has, it's weird. Cause it's, it's a lot of people love the fall. , especially in the new England area. Um, which makes sense. Cause it was gorgeous when I was there in Boston. Um, but like that it's, it's fun. It's got that Christmas in there and it's so nice, but it's also the start of something that It's the start of winter and what's associated with like death and stuff like

[00:27:11] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: right, dreading. a long season of sadness.

[00:27:15] Jordan Smith Reynolds: uh huh. That is long. The East Coast is actually I'm not sure how it is in Indiana. Um,

[00:27:22] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: It's pretty similar to the East Coast.

[00:27:24] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Is it? Yeah,

[00:27:26] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Though we're on the other side of the Eastern time zone, so we don't get the 3. 30 sunsets in the winter. That sucked

[00:27:34] Jordan Smith Reynolds: that's brutal.

[00:27:36] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: in Boston. That was so bad.

[00:27:37] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, it just lasts for so long too. I remember in May just being like this this has to be done

[00:27:43] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah.

[00:27:43] Jordan Smith Reynolds: to be over But yeah, I think the the fragrance of easy answer is not continuing to hold It's just that that's starting to let go into like That's kind of where my mind went.

Um, and I love that imagery. 

[00:27:59] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah, I do kind of feel like this song just like plopped down in front of me and I don't really know where it came from. So, um, I, I feel, um, blessed.

[00:28:12] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, yeah. 

How often do you sit down with a song and that happens? Like, what would you say the ratio is of, like, songs that are just, like, come down versus, uh, songs that you have to, like, really craft out?

[00:28:28] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Well, I think I'll, I'll, like the, If there is an idea that is worth keeping, it usually comes, like,

[00:28:37] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm hmm.

[00:28:39] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: the ones, and then when I'm editing or something, then those might be more, like, toiled after phrases. Um, but

no, probably less than half, but I think it's kind of a high percentage for me, I think.

[00:29:00] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, I kind of like the idea of, only pursuing the songs that feel like the concepts at least make things, uh, run smoother.

[00:29:09] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting too, because like, sometimes I write a song that like, really just plops out, and then I don't think about it for months, and then it will get back in my head. Like, this past week, like, two songs that I've written and not done anything with are just like, coming back to me.

And I'm like, is this a good song? I think this might actually be a good song. Like, that's like, almost kind of done already. And I just like, needed some time to think about. If it was good, or to forget about it and then have it just pop back in. So that's fun too.

[00:29:44] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yeah, songs just need to wait for a while sometimes. Um,

[00:29:47] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: but this one was very immediate. The other thing is I was about to go to a birthday party the evening of this song and I was supposed, it was like a birthday party where everybody was supposed to share a piece of art and it had to be, it was, it didn't have to be autumn themed, but because the person's birthday was in September, it was.

Like I remember that was also an influence where I'm like, okay, I have to kind of tie in what I'm emotionally dealing with into the season because I have to have a song that is birth, not birthday themed,

[00:30:23] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yeah.

[00:30:23] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: but kind of like birth and death, like, you know, that ties this all together and isn't like totally a bummer to sing at a birthday party.

[00:30:32] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah,

[00:30:33] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: So,

[00:30:34] Jordan Smith Reynolds: that's cool What um, do you have any thoughts for songwriters that might be listening in just like For what inspires you and kind of gets you into songwriting mode It doesn't have to be any like specific advice, but maybe just like what what works for you What makes it you grab the guitar and start writing?

Yeah, it's just something like that.

[00:30:59] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: um, recently it's basically like if I get a jolt of adrenaline. And I don't know where it's coming from. Then I try to sit down with the guitar and then figure out what's going on.

[00:31:15] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah

[00:31:16] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Um, cause usually there's enough momentum there to like spill out some, some concept or some feeling that I am in the moment, at least feeling feelings about.

[00:31:32] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah,

[00:31:32] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: And I think it also helps. If I'm like on my phone for a long time or just scrolling or like laying on the couch and then it's been like a couple hours and then I'm like, what am I doing with my life? Then I'm like, well, if I sat down with a guitar right now, that would be something I would be doing something.

So sometimes I do that too,

[00:31:54] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm hmm

[00:31:55] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: but yeah, I think mostly just like following and I have a really flexible schedule. I'm like, I teach lessons and I perform and so when I'm home. Um, I do have a lot of freedom in my schedule, so I can kind of follow my whims a lot more than most people, which is really good.

[00:32:15] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah,

[00:32:16] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Um, and I think leads to more songs just because I have more free space in my head and in my time.

[00:32:24] Jordan Smith Reynolds: sure. I found that to be a good thing and a bad thing, having that flexibility of schedule. Um, that's, that's where I'm at right now as well. 

Um, what, what do you teach?

[00:32:36] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: I teach guitar and voice and songwriting and viola and fiddle. Kind of whatever, whatever people want to learn from me.

[00:32:44] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Viola and Fiddle. That's cool. Um, did you, do you have any Viola Fiddle on the upcoming record that you did?

[00:32:49] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: No, I've kind of been. Moving towards the violin slash fiddle being More of a like social activity. I think like I, it was my first instrument and I played with my family band when I was like six on through childhood. And I feel like there was sort of a pressure that I would become a great fiddle player.

Uh, so kind of self imposed. And also I just like was a talented child. So then people were like, Oh, you're going to be Alison Krauss. And, um, and then at some point I kind of burnt out of it. And. Stopped having fun. And so then I started I like leaned into the songwriting part because I was like, ah autonomy I'm choosing the right songs

[00:33:33] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:33:35] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: and then When I lived in Boston and a few years before that and since then I've been around more people that are just like really really good acoustic instrumentalists and that has been fun to like go to old time jams and like Listen to bluegrass music and like get kind of more in, uh, yeah, just more into people having fun with playing instrumental music.

Um, and as opposed to like a family band where I was not always having fun. And then also like orchestra where it's like kind of fun, but not like about having fun.

[00:34:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. More like the technical feat.

[00:34:21] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah, and so I've been kind of more separating that in recent years. For a while, on my album I'm Not Here, which is three syllables, I did have some songs that I wrote with the fiddle as the main accompaniment, um, which was cool, but then, I just got better at the guitar and was like, I can do more of what I want to do in terms of an accompaniment part on the guitar.

And so then I was like, I think it's actually okay if I separate these two and have one be just like for fun and one be more like my career. But I do still enjoy teaching it for people that, um, want to learn. So,

[00:35:03] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Sure. 

And what was the, um, what was the jump from fiddle to viola for you? I'd love to hear that.

[00:35:10] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: um, in middle school, well, so I, I was taking Suzuki violin lessons. When I was four and then also playing fiddle tunes with my parents. My dad is an auto heart player,

[00:35:21] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Uh huh.

[00:35:22] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: but like the two time international autoherp champion. Uh, so he's very good. And we would go to a lot of autoherp festivals and stuff. So that was the situation in which I was learning fiddle at the same time as I was learning classical violin.

And then in middle school, I had a crush on someone who played the viola. So I switched to the viola.

[00:35:40] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Nice.

[00:35:41] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: then in college I got a five string violin. So now I can do both. Which is fun.

[00:35:47] Jordan Smith Reynolds: That's a great reason.

[00:35:48] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah, I feel like that's everybody's reason. I don't know if people, yeah, just choose the viola.

[00:35:56] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, yeah, that's so funny. Um, my cousin's a viola player as well. I think he ended up playing violin on my record, but he, but he's a viola player. 

So this is coming out on your album, um, What I Pushed Below and Honest Fragrance. Um, yeah, anything else you want to say about the record?

Oh, the other thing I wanted to say, sorry. Um, back to the lessons and stuff. Do you do online? So anyone listening that's looking for those things, uh, songwriting, instrumental, um, voice, uh, check out Sadie Gustavsson's Zouk. We have a guitar. We have, um, we'll have this all in the show notes so you can, you can look this up and you can get the streaming links for the songs and all that stuff.

Um, but yeah, is there anything else you'd like to, uh, to say about the record as we, as we wrap up?

[00:36:48] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Um, no. I still have to think about it a little bit more, I think.

[00:36:54] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Yeah. It's still unfolding. That's, that's awesome. Um, But this song, you said this song is coming out. Uh, will this be the first single from the record? Okay. Awesome. So be expecting more from this, this record. Um, and Sadie, thank you so much for being on the show today. This was, this was so fun to get to know you a bit.

[00:37:16] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was a delight.

[00:37:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes, I don't think we mentioned on the podcast that, um, the reason we got in contact was through, uh, Brittany and Tranbot too. So we should, we should shout her out.

[00:37:29] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: out to Brittany. She's the best.

[00:37:31] Jordan Smith Reynolds: She is. Um, and I, I think I found her because Apple music, like, The algorithm for Apple Music like fed me one of her songs when I was listening to something else, which was cool.

And that hasn't happened very often where like Apple Music has sent me something and I've been like, this is great. I need to figure out who this is. So that's pretty sweet. , thank you again so much for being on here.

Love the song. And, uh, I'm, jealous of that guitar. It sounds very nice.

[00:38:01] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: Oh yeah. Go check it out. The Martin triple O five.

[00:38:04] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Triple O five., Thank you so much, Sadie. We'll see you next time.

[00:38:08] Sadie Gustafson-Zook: All right. See ya.

[00:38:09] Jordan Smith Reynolds: All right. Bye!